Creators of the XBLA hit claim Xbox partnership has deteriorated
Outspoken indies Team Meat will no longer have a commercial partnership with Microsoft, a co-founder at the studio has said.
Edmund McMillen (pictured) has criticised the Xbox manufacturer for its lack of support during production of the 2010 XBLA hit Super Meat Boy.
“I don't think we'll work with them [Microsoft] ever again,” McMillen said on the IndieGames.com podcast.
Team Meat does remain on good terms with an unnamed Microsoft producer, McMillen added.
“He also happens to be the producer on every good game on the fucking system [Xbox 360]. It felt like he was the only person who really believed in us, and he felt like a friend.”
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Super Meat Boy, initially a popular Flash game that Team Meat had plans to reinvent for the Wii’s digital platform, eventually became a console exclusive for Microsoft.
The Xbox Live Arcade game, which has received a 90 Metacritic score, benefited from Microsoft promotion at launch.
But McMillen believes the studio hasn’t been properly supported since.
“We've not had one [discount] sale [on Xbox] since our initial launch, and I don't know if that's going to happen,” he said.
“Whenever we ask, and we actively ask monthly if we can be included in a sale or get any kind of promotion, they say no.”
Team Meat co-founder Tommy Refenes said the only the studio would work with Microsoft again “is if it's more on our terms, which I don't feel like they'll ever want to agree with”.
Meanwhile, Refenes explained that the PC edition of Super Meat Boy has sold roughly twice as many copies as the Xbox Live Arcade version.
“That's just on Steam for PC,” he said.
“Other digital distribution sites in no way compare to what Steam is. Steam is a fucking powerhouse.”
Way to burn your bridges publically there, buddy.
I'm not saying Microsoft isn't wrong but you could of taken the high ground and not whine about it in public.
It's not really going to help with the behemoth to make any changes and it'll make you look a little "prima donna".
MS really does treat its content providers like slaves. If they have higher sales on PC through steam then why even bother with the trouble of dealing with MS in the first place? Steam on PC is a better marketplace and Valve does great things for indie dev's. I have worked with MS before on an arcade title and I know exactly what they went through. Screw MS. With sony and steam you really can ignore the xbox. I never thought I would say sony is the better company to get into bed with. Even with the PSN incident - it is a better ecosystem to be part of. Best of luck team meat.
Yeah, what #1 said ... it's not good PR, no matter what you think it looks like.
And it doesn't just burn your bridges with Microsoft, others may fear ones disloyalty and be more hesitant to deal with you in the future.
It is best to assume you will some day need the assistance of your enemies and that anything you say against them will be a snare on you when you come to ask for their help.
I personally appreciate having first-hand experiences publicly documented in such fashion. I wouldn't call this whining - it seems like their only path to vent their displeasure with the service. In retrospect, they didn't have to sign any exclusivity deals - I know I wouldn't. My creation will go where I say it will go. Done. I learned that unless you have a highly coveted product (where you can push your own conditions) going exclusive is a fail. I hope Team Meat learned from this innocent error, and will be more successful in the future.
I am tired of all this what's "smart" and what's "safe" talk. If devs want to express how messed up a company is, they have every right to. Everything doesn't have to be so conservative and always thinking about some future time where the devs "might" need MS again. There are other ways to get funded and support yourself, and you don't always need to hold your tongue like it's the better decision. Calling companies out on there b/s is how things get changed. As we speak, there are articles floating around the web about MS game's division "parity" policies and how it hinders developers for doing anything extra for other platforms. We don't need companies that hinder creativity and innovation in an entertainment industry, and when MS f's up, it's good that people know about it.
I don't support 360 because of articles like this, so it certainly has more weight to it than some give credit for.
Whether Team Meat are burning their bridges is up for debate, what is important here is that Microsoft's attitude towards it's partners has been brought to peoples attention. Much better that companies like Team Meat speak out against it than everyone keeping quite for fear of rebuke from bullies like Microsoft.
its true they are the primadonna's to the Nth degree. I work at a dev studio and they where even worse to us, snobbish/stuck up. Also heard many a story from Bungie over how their producers would make big $$ driving in Lambo's/Porches whilst the dev team got nothin..eh..
Someone call the WAH-bulence for Team Meat.
I will NEVER buy anything these guys make (The Binding of Issac is nothing more than ripping off Zelda and Dan Paladin's art style), and after seeing them whine yet again over "VERBAL PROMISES" (what do you think CONTRACTS ARE FOR?), they can take their company away from MS as fast as they can.
A couple of drama queens here. Zen Studios was right to call them out, and Team Meat's tweet was all you needed to see how "professional" this developer really is. And I, for one, NEVER WANT TO SEE TEAM MEAT ANYTHING in Pinball FX2.
Remember, it took over two times the number of sales on Steam to match the revenue you made with XBLA. QFT already Team Meat.
good on them for speaking publically about MS. Everyone saying they should have bit their tounge is naive and stupid. They are an INDIE dev, they can publish games with whoever they want, and if they want to call out MS for treating them like crap, they damn well should.
Pluse good to see that steam was a success for them, I read somewhere they sold over 700k on steam, even if they sold most of that on sale, they still made enough money to keep their studio alive for another few years (remember they are only 2 guys).
MS need to wake up and give indie devs the respect and freedom they deserve, as most of these indie devs release more interesting and fun games than most of teh other rehashed COD crap on the market now days.
Edmund and Tommy are kick-ass developers who obviously don't give a shit about burning their bridges with Microsoft. Microsoft fucked them, so why would they work with them again? We need more game devs like these guys. Go Team Meat!
JlA said:
"Way to burn your bridges publically there, buddy.
I'm not saying Microsoft isn't wrong but you could of taken the high ground and not whine about it in public.
It's not really going to help with the behemoth to make any changes and it'll make you look a little "prima donna"."
Its folk like you that are the reason crap companies like Microshaft can still get away with treating their subsidiaries like crap.
More people like this need to speak up and publicly shame companies like Microsoft. People should not be afraid of speaking their mind. Its how things get changed and in this industry it has happened before.
So it appears that we have confused friendship with business. MS doesn't owe its content suppliers (not subsidaies) anything other than what it says on the contract. I'm not saying it wouldn't be better for them if they were cuddly teddy bears, but nothing is owed. Dev's are not entitled to anything (again, other than what is in their contract). That lack of implicity social reciprosity is what principally divides a business relationship from a friendly one. Sure you can have both. Sure it might be better if you do. But no one is obliged to be friends with their business partners (or inthis case, suppliers).
Furthermore, MS won't have to do anything unless the dynamics of the industry dramatically change. there are currently only a few places where dev's and pub's can go to bring games to market (Steam, Stardock, Sony, MS, Nin, FB) and a large (and growing) amount of content trying to make it onto those platforms. So, unless MS has to begin competing for dev's attention, there is no incentive to change their ways. I'm afraid that no amount of public airing of greivances (no matter how justified they may be) will change that (unfortunate?) reality.
