Traveller’s Tales’ director Jon Burton fears that a controllerless UI will limit its flexibility for different genres and games
Microsoft has invested significant money and time to ensure its upcoming motion controller Natal is as accomplished as its host console, yet suspected “lag issues” may curb the peripheral’s chances of success.
That was the view offered by Traveller’s Tales company director Jon Burton, who told Develop that his own experience with the hands-free controller raised doubts.
“I was actually more impressed with Sony’s motion capture solution than Microsoft’s Natal,” he said as part of this week’s Develop Jury Service.
“[Natal is] exceedingly clever, but the lag on the input and lack of physical buttons is really going to restrict the kind of games that can be done with it,” he added, before going on to praise Sony’s (currently nameless) alternative.
“Sony’s solution will be cheap, accurate and will put buttons at your fingertips, meaning everything from action adventures to FPSes can be handled with the same input.”
Burton’s fear is that any controllerless device will struggle to achieve the level of immediacy and precision that’s found analogue sticks, buttons and mice. And, as such accuracy and fluidity is demanded by a vast number of games and genres, questions have been raised on which kind of games Natal will fit best with.
It has been suggested previously that the flexibility of Natal’s camera could allow for games where a controller and the Natal camera can be used together – a solution that could somewhat defeat the purpose of Natal itself.
However, Burton has not seen a final version of Natal, as Microsoft looks to tweak the device before its ‘November’ launch.
“The software behind Natal stunned me,” added Burton. “To be able to take effectively a bump-map of a person and turn that into a fully articulated and rigged polygonal skeleton is an incredible feat. We run a mo-cap studio and to get anything resembling mo-cap, live in real-time, from effectively a single camera is nothing short of amazing.”
Microsoft recently confirmed it will reveal more details about Natal to developers at its Gamefest conferences in February.
The revelation followed reports that the company is agressively ramping up recruitment for Natal-tied software, and is touring studios to encourage development deals.
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They said they want Natal to mimic the accomplishments of it's host console? Does that mean that Project Natal will have a 33% failure rate?
David, nice one.
Haha!
Nice one David, way to show your immaturity and fanboyism. Eight Ball, way to praise the idiot.
Que Ball, since when is stating the truth being a fanboy? Fact: The 360 has a 55% failure rate. Fanboy: Que Ball"Nice one David, way to show your immaturity and fanboyism. Eight Ball, way to praise the idiot."
Give me one solid piece of info that the 360 has a %55 percent failure rate. Just one piece that is not anecdotal. I would wait for the answer but I know you droids won't have one.
Always has 2 be a couple of idiots in just about any game news posted these days. Especially if it runs through the cess pool that is N4G
N4G a cesspool eh? I suppose you hate it so much you just have to visit it and find your way here then? Hypocrite.
Also, don't be mad as the jokes concerning the failure rate. It's your drunk of a husband that beats you's fault named MS's fault that it's a joke in the first place. You should hold them to a higher standard perhaps you low standards having consumer with crappy tastes and even worse investment decisions.
Microsoft's 360 has a confirmed failure rate of 54.3%, and that figure is still on the rise.
"the lag on the input and lack of physical buttons is really going to restrict the kind of games that can be done with it"
Is that code for 'we can't just knock out another lego game for it' ?
There is going to be some tiny lag and lack of precision on all motion controls. You can see it on the motion plus now. The trick is being able to use the new tool you've been given wisely. Yes, it's not going to replace a traditional controller (duh) but a bit of imagination and skill should produce interesting results.
TBH i always assumed Natal would suck balls, obviously i haven't played it but i agree with what your man says about buttons, you need something.
however i was messing round with my PSeye the otherday and there was lag there as well, so unless Sony updates the software, which i think they have hinted at at some point since E3 but i certainly can't confirm, there may be some lag there too.
of course at the E3 demo they were going on about "true 1:1 tracking" and i'm inclined to believe them at the moment, i've seen a couple of tech demos and it looks pretty sweet.
i haven't seen any new Natal demos since E3 so i can't say what progress they have made, but the elephant thing was rubbish, and the avatar spazzed out when he tried to show us his foot. idiot lol. they also had the demo on some talk show where they were wearing red jump-suits, no comment, and some other thing that i can't remember rightly where everybody was in a big white room.
we haven't seen or used either of them yet so conjecture away guys, but personally i have more confidence in the glowing dildos than in the other thing.
"There is going to be some tiny lag and lack of precision on all motion controls."
I take it you haven't seen the figures involved with Natal...
@LaLa - i haven't seen 'em. any chance of a link?
You are talking like Sony and the PS3 is "the right example" of hardware solution? Did you forget the failure rate on the BluRay ...?
Anyway this console is certainly what killed the "Next Gen concept" from the start, with its 256 MB of RAM / VRAM and a fuck*** cell only there in helping the poor graphic chip.
Don't tell me Uncharted 2 is the most beautyfull game on console, it's just an exemple of what can be done when a simple ambiant occlusion shader is correctly integrated... this post Fx can run on any plateform.
Fuc** PS3 and Sony's marketing.
i dont like natal, without buttons i can only imagine games that you only play a few hours showing all your friends
"You are talking like Sony and the PS3 is "the right example" of hardware solution? Did you forget the failure rate on the BluRay ...?
Anyway this console is certainly what killed the "Next Gen concept" from the start, with its 256 MB of RAM / VRAM and a fuck*** cell only there in helping the poor graphic chip.
Don't tell me Uncharted 2 is the most beautyfull game on console, it's just an exemple of what can be done when a simple ambiant occlusion shader is correctly integrated... this post Fx can run on any plateform.
Fuc** PS3 and Sony's marketing."
You are an idiot! Uncharted could be on any platform. Naughty Dog combined the technology behind the CPU and the extra room behind the blu-ray to create an amazing game, plus in an interview with Naughty Dog they clearly said that Uncharted 2 would have been a completely different game had it been on any other console. If you think your silly X-box 360, which was maxed out/reached the barrier where it just couldn't get any better in games for over a year ago, could handle the kind of technology and graphics that are behind the PS3 and Uncharted 2, then you sir, are a moron!
That's the beauty of the 360 and the shear failure of the PS3. Think about it. Sony had a 140 million unit head start with the installed PS2 base. Look at where Microsoft started - The year was 2001, dead last, new kid on the block, going up against the largest gaming corporation around - the mighty Sony. Fast forward to today. Microsoft has done an amazing thing given the gigantic install base and head start Sony had. Not to mention they did it with having the RROD issue. If you ask me that says a lot about Sony's failure overall if they couldn't beat Microsoft given all the challenges that have faced them.
Sony has nothing to sing about. If Microsoft hadn't had the RROD, you'd be talking about the launch of a PS4 right now. PS3 would have been a distant memory by now.
The 360 has proven it has staying power, period point blank. How else do you explain their lead and their complete domination of Sony in the online gaming arena.
One last point, Project Natal will change yet again the 360's staying power. You can argue all you want, "seen that done that," but you're lying to yourself and you know it. Project Natal will do everything the Wii can do and everything it wish it could. The biggest difference will be in shear muscle. We all know that the Wii can't hold a candle to the 360's processing power. Couple that with the fact that Project Natal will have its own internal processor, and a ton of support from developers known for more than just making family party games, it will accomplish things that the Wii (or the God Rest Its Soul Eye Toy) never has or never will do in its current state.
My PS3 brethren, you've got a choice to make, wait around for the PS4 to come along and get it right, or as the saying goes...
"Jump In..."
As much as you people hate on Natal and its lack of buttons and 1 to 1 percision, can we for once think about the people who would benefit from the "lack of buttons". Think about those who are missing fingers, hands, and/or arms. They can finally play a game, this is huge. I have such a friend, and it makes me happy that my friend will finally be able to participate in video games instead of having to watch from the sidelines.
Natal is the next step in video games whether you fanboys like it or not.
The whole concept of Natal sucks, it for kids, third age and housewives. And if i´m going to put an space suit for the camera to catch me, worse.
i can't believe people are still bashing the BR disc. failure rates i expect are nothing more than nominal, nothing is bullet proof and i certainly hope no-one is comparing this to the 360 failure rate. c'mon, seriously?
if it wasn't for the capacity of the BR disc then games this gen like U2 and even FFXIII would cost a lot more to publish, requiring 2 discs. so the BR regardless of what people think of the films and drive failure is a big deal, and a good thing.
although i appreciate you said nothing about the 360, if it weren't for LIVE the Xbox wouldn't be half as successful as it is. as it stands it has the best community/online component which is hugely valuable.
THIS is the truth:
360: not bad at all, software advantage in terms of a massive library, LIVE is the best option for online play etc.
PS3: Hardware advantage, although a smaller library quality is marginally better, browser (albeit dodgy), Bluray GAMES, free network.
that's about it really, nevermind the Bluetooth or wireless stuff cos that can be worked around. end of the day, buy what you want. however, if you think one is so much better than the other that either don't deserve a place under the TV, you are a bit of a dick-head.
PS3 is in the acendancy ATM, 360 has stagnated a little but had a massive injection from MW2 as it is the preferable platform for it. there are good games for both coming out next year but 360 will not have huge success until Halo Reach-around comes out.
natal and the PS3 thing are both pretty rubbish really, but i reckon (RECKON as in how the fuck do i know what's gonna happen in the future) the PS3 will come out on top in a years time, maybe not in install base but in terms of public perception and all that bollocks. anyway, i supposed to be a work......
Natal sucks. You cannot have an immersive game without buttons, you just cant. The best thing natal will do is play kids games or sports games and racing games. Im looking forward to sonys motion controls, they look sweet and the color of the wand is supposed to change with the mood of the game. We have seen actual games played with sonys motion control, we have only seen lame tech demos and throwing paint on a wall with natal. Next year xbox has a lot to worry about, im not saying their doomed in fact i hope MS stays in the game. Competition is always good. To each his own, i dont really get wowed by any games on xbox but ps3 games make my mouth water and immerse me into their games.
UNCHARTED 2 FTW!!!!
Killzone 2 FTW!!!
Warhawk FTW!!!!
INFAMOUS FTW!!!
Demons Souls FTW!!!!
Ratchet clank FTW!!!
PS3 FTW!!!
PLAY BEYOND
I consider that Natal is aimed at the casual market the Wii has shown is there and has cash to spend. The benefit to me, the hardcore gamer, is that Microsoft won't abandon the Xbox360 as quickly as they dumped the original Xbox.
If Natal can stall the need for MS to release the Xbox1120 and have more developers create games on this platform it will be good. I don't see me letting go of my controller with one hand to armpump a signal to my teammates or take the time to get up off my chair to do a jump function but I could see the kids playing carnival games for 20 minutes with it.
And yes, that first comment about the Xbox failure rate was funny... and in the same vain it failed 54% of the time to make the haters laugh :)
i hate motion controlls when i play video games i dont want to have to jump around like an ape i want to relax
>360: not bad at all, software advantage in
>terms of a massive library, LIVE is the best
>option for online play etc.
>PS3: Hardware advantage, although a smaller
>library quality is marginally better, browser
>(albeit dodgy), Bluray GAMES, free network.
This is great to see people believing that a game is more beautyfull because of the BluRay ! STOP
I am a game developper since more than a decade now, and I can just tell you that the BluRay HAS NOTHING TO DO with the rendering in Uncharted 2, hey we are talking realtime rendering, not playing a video from the BluRay.
A console cannot pretend better *realtime rendering* because of a CDROM, a DVD or a BluRay !
The fact is, that due to the veeeeery poor fillrate of the PS3 ship , we, developers, have developped techniques using the Cell in order to help the graphic Ship(GPU) having the *same* framerate as the 360 without those kind of optimisations.
90% of the production focuses on how to keep a correct framerate on PS3, I don't talk about Anti Aliasing which we forgot since a long time now on PS3.
I don't talk about having to deal with this fucking ridiculous amount of 256 MB of video memory (dividing textures by 2 :( etc. )
The fact is, you can tell whatever , that the "PS3" has a better architecture, I will tell you *this is wrong* because we shall not spend so much effort in developping on those techniques. We shall concentrate on gameplay, creativity, instead of dealing with constant constraints.
Also, there is a second "bad effect" on using those techniques, people now start to think we are 'mastering better the PS3' , that we unleached an hidden power , false, we just have learnt some tricks to 'help' the weak graphic ship.
This is really not being fanboy from my point of view, but Imagine if we were spending the same time on 360 ... we would have take much more out of the 3 hyperthread cores and its much better graphic ship, and 512 MB of Unified Memory.
Gladiator007:
You just admitted that bec of RROD that M$ able to sell more. It only means in the first year of Xbox majority of those sales from hardware failures. 8 million pre PS3 launch are from hardware failures. Great.
PS3 is kicking Xbox's ass w/ less failure rate than the Xbox. If the Xbox have no RROD then those sales won't go up. Just this past month Xbox was able to sell more than PS3 is BECAUSE THEY BANNED 1 MILLION CONSOLES! Craiglist was flooded with banned Xbox console and those people got their consoles banned have no choice but to buy a new one. Great strategy by M$. I'm sure Sony can learn a thing or two from M$ failure rate and banning strategy to move consoles. But Sony is not M$, they take care of old customers while invites new ones, unlike M$ that only milk old idiotic customers to death. Halo:ODST sold 2 million copies in it's 1st week but where's the console sale? It didn't move much. Uncharted 2 was released sold 700k-800k but increased PS3 sales by 44%. Sony is not looking for a 1 shot sale, they're looking for long term sales w/c will give them money in the long run.
I hate to further the creation of more proprietary plastic controllers, but with Natal and some creative software, you can ship cheap plastic controllers with your games!
For example, you want a gun/shooter type game. Then package a simple plastic gun with a battery, trigger, and LED at the end. Your game software can recognize that gun and fire the gun when you pull the trigger and turns on the LED. Need to reload? Push the button near the clip, and the a spring loaded clip pops out (but not out of the gun). Push that clip back in and your game recognizes, "hey you just reloaded". Sure you have to figure out how to move but you have most of the gameplay figured out with a simple $5.00 plastic toy.
I was wondering when there would be more logical and informed debate about the actual products on hand so far I don't see many that don't only refer to Natal.
/mini rant
Natal: having seen the Milo tech demo, I can only say that even with lag the Natal is looking like an awesome piece of tech. TheGeek is right about the whole gun thing/+ any other controls that would be needed, but all in all I like the look of Natal.
Sony MC:I like this one even though it seem like the wii, I like it because it not only looks good but seems like it would be real fun to play with, it is an impressive piece of tech. Although it still has its drawbacks that Natal doesn't. It only has controls for the hands whereas Natal could utilise the feet, creating a possibility of awesome fighting games.
Overall I like both systems but at heart I am and will always be a Sony/Nintendo player.
Frank your an idiot!!! First off how the heck are you a video game developer and your grammar is HORRIBLE??? Talking about imagine if developers were only focusing on the xbox360 how powerful the games would be? NEWS FLASH developers have been FOCUSING on xbox360 on multi-plat titles since this generation has opened!!!Developers are beginning to realize that the xbox360 is inferior to the ps3 and are pushing multi plats on the ps3 and porting over to the xbox360 an example of that is assassins creed 2!You sound like a pre-teen fan boy lying about you being a video game developer. I guess its true what they say kids not only say the darnedest things but they also lie about the darnedest things.
The playstation3 is the most powerful console on the market thats a FACT, The reason why it is last in sales is because the most powerful console always suffers in sales simply because it is always more EXPENSIVE.
Microsoft has sold so many consoles because they released there console 1 year before sony did, and because there console was almost always 100 dollars cheaper then the ps3 at all times. Its a proven fact us Americans like cheaper things no matter how inferior that product is compared to the top of the line product. Now that the playstation3 and xbox360 elite are 299.99 look how much the playstation3 is SPANKING the xbox360. Oh but leave it to microsoft to bring out the xbox360 arcade for 199.99 simply because there an american product and they know the american demographic we like cheap things over quality, hence the reason why americans allow microsoft to still sell RROD products where Japanese gamers favor quality and dont TOUCH the xbox360 because all it does is overheat and the Japanese do not accept FAULTY products.
Oh the irony! I wish gamers like yourself will stop saying "your an idiot" all the time and criticise others for their grammar. It should be "YOU'RE", short for "YOU ARE", not "YOUR" meaning belonging or relating to you. So, what was that about an idiot again? ;-)
I know I'll have my fair share of typos and grammical errors so... no more lectures about English please.
Anyway, developers are NOT realizing the 360 is inferior (only fanboys say that), and they do not say that, but instead say both 360 and PS3 have their pros and cons.
What they do realize is that because the PS3 is more difficult to program (for the reasons Frank gives), it's best they LEAD with the PS3 and port over to the 360. And yet, even when this is done, the PS3 version is still only on par with the 360 version. Hence Assassin's Creed 2 is as good on PS3 as it is 360, so your point is?
Overall, many multiplatform devs feel that if both consoles are pushed to the max, the PS3 will have a SLIGHT edge over the 360, so yes it's more powerful, but the difference is tiny.
As for sales, again you're showing fanboy tendencies. When the PS3 Slim was released, being a new model at a lower price gave the PS3 a welcome bump in sales, however it is slowly declining from that peak, and so last month, the NPD figures shows the 360 started to outsell the PS3 again. Therefore it will be interesting to see how they both sell this Christmas.
That said, I don't have a problem with the PS3 and Frank seems to (I own both), but I do agree that Blu-ray doesn't make the games any better, it's just more convenient (i.e. no need for multiple disks).
And finally, please stop with the reasons you think Americans buy one product and Japanese another. Last gen, gamers like yourself where saying the XBox isn't selling in Japan because it's too big, and yet the 'huge' PS3 (original model) sold more than the smaller 360. Last gen, dirty read errors (DREs) were common on the PS2, making it less reliable than the XBox, and yet the Japanese gamers seemed happy to accept that fault without problems. In otherwords, all you and others are doing is taking whatever you see at the time and making up 'facts' to fit.
You said "Just this past month Xbox was able to sell more than PS3 is BECAUSE THEY BANNED 1 MILLION CONSOLES"
No disrespect, but you've given the perfect example of why I find the false assumptions people make online so annoying.
1) It was nowhere near 1m banned consoles, and MS themselves have said it was not 1m.
2) MS have not stated how many were banned, so all the numbers we see are just guesses. 1m out of 20m live accounts is 1 in 20. Think about it! 1 in 20 and yet no-one I know was banned and too few people on forums say they were banned for it to be anywhere near 1m.
3) The US is not the whole world. MS's ban was a worldwide ban of modified 360s, so what ever figure you come up with, the US accounts for only a portion of that figure.
4) There are LOTS of places online which gives instructions on how to reset your 360 to get around the ban (just use google). So NO WAY are gamers just going to rush out and buy a new console without trying out those methods first and therefore get their console back online for FREE!
5) The figures last month for the 360 are to be expected given the November figures of previous years (though a little less than last year).
6) No-one has shown and nowhere has reported a sudden jump in 360 sales following the ban.
7) I have to credit others on forums for the above list :)
So the 360 beat the PS3 last month in the US fair and square, it has nothing to do with 360's being banned.
Anyway, can we talk about Natal now guys. :-D
i do have to point out that no-one has said that BR discs make the games any better looking. i made a point in post 19, second paragraph and someone totally missed the point in 23 and it became a rumour from there on in. i know it's a lot of reading but if you're gonna comment at least read the freakin thing first.
anyway, Natal. given it's gonna be affordable (apparently about £50 i think i read somewhere) pretty much every Xbox will get one so even if it's not successful on the software side (which it may not be, time will tell) i think hardware will shift.
i'm pretty sure they could sell a million in the UK and a million in the US on the same day, poss even in JP but god knows.
it'll go down as a success given the 360 install base and the price point, however as for the actual product itself, i just dunno. i don't think occassional armpumps or whatever will be that big a seller, the prospect of using my whole body to play a game is faddish, but you have to remember it's a mic as well.
i've wondered why voice control a la Endwar hasn't become more widespread. OK it wasn't perfect but it's been a while now. imagine Mass Effect with voice controls. that grabbing anybody?
if Natal's gonna be available in every region and they're gonna make any kinda deal outta the mic capabilities then it'll have to be very robust. still not convinced.
25/26 - propriatary controllers. the PS3 tech already lends itself to this far more readily. and are you seriously considering using your feet in a fighting game in your living/bedroom? seriously? think about both those points, and also think about the last time we saw the bottom of an avatar's shoe. oh yeah, that time lol.
and the whole hands and feet thing. most people have upto four limbs that deal with gross motor, and most people have upto ten digits on their hands that deal with fine motor. which is more appropriate for gaming? i didn't evlolve thumbs just to then not use them. look at the keyboard you are typing on and wonder why there isn't one for your feet. controllers have been designed for humans with the typical 8 fingers, two opposable thumbs in mind, it's not a design fluke.
i fully appreciate this is not the case for everyone and i do believe games should be inclusionary, however unless the software is designed with a persons individual disability in mind, it's gonna be a bit generic. still, may be better than nothing.
where as i accept the use of feet in driving games, without the tactility of the pedals and feedback from the wheel you will not drive as well, and also pedals for crappy plastic drums too. other than this i don't see much scope for the use of feet in a domestic console set up beyond the Wii balance board. Tony Hawks has just tried it and failed. arcades, yes.
so then, Natal: interesting but i just don't see the users adopting it how MS hope they will. they will sell regardless, but i believe they will remain un-used for the most part because of either a lack of precision or lack of decent applications for it.
anybody see the new Windows 7 ad with the new touchscreen Viao? made me laugh. why can't we all just get along?
So here's my take on the forthcoming motion sensing technology.
Imo, Natal will lend itself better to hardcore gaming than Sony's wand. "WTF?" I hear you cry, well here's my problem with motion sensing and the reason why I feel Natal will be better in this respect.
Before the launch of the Wii, many felt it's motion sensing wand could prove to be the ultimate FPS control method, offering something closer to the accuracy of the keyboard+mouse combo seen on PC, and hence an improvement over the standard controller.
But as it turns out for FPSs, motion sensing wands are more combersome for that genre than a controller, where they introduce more problems they solve. No-one has come up an ideal FPS control scheme for the Wiimote, and I can't see Sony's wand being any different, and being more accurate wouldn't change that. Therefore for FPSs, third person shooters and a number of other genres, I really can't see hardcore gamers abandoning their standard controllers and replacing them with wands and cameras.
So where does Natal fit in? Well Natal can work with the standard controller, it doesn't automatically replace it. Therefore Natal can be used to enhance the control, rather than replace it. For example, head tracking in FPSs and racers (lookup TrackIR in Youtube, and note GT5 will use the PSEye for this purpose, but it costs in terms of processing and memory, unlike Natal), hand commands to your team (AI or online players) in squad based games - commands like "Wait here", "Stop", "Move out" etc, perhaps spell casting in certain RPGs (think elaborate hand gestures), leaning around corners, and so on.
Yes I know, some of my examples are better than others, so perhaps gamers here can think of a few more. But my point is, I believe Natal can enhance the controller based game playing experience, either directly (head tracking) and/or replace the secondary functions which usually requires pressing a button to pause a game, bring up a menu and make a choice (replaced by a gesture or body movement).
In otherwords, Natal can ADD to the standard controller, it doesn't replace it for hardcore gaming.
For casual games, that's where Natal on it's own can work very well, but this is also where I see Sony's wand fitting in for gaming, like the Wiimote. I'm just not convinced that Sony's wand and hardcore gaming will go together (but I'd be happy if I'm proven wrong next year :-)).
so how accurate is natal then? can it actually pick up subtlties like how many fingers am i holding up? i'd be interested to see, i know it's long way off until november '10 but i haven't seen one tech demo that impressed me.
i might add that when i mean how many fingers i mean being able to do it dynamically from a reasonable distance without having to over emphasize.
i found with the PSeye that lighting is an issue, i tend to play in low light which i know isn't advisable but that ain't gonna change.
my concern is that i'm 3 meters away, with a lamp on in the corner of the room sitting on a dark red couch with light curtains behind them. i just don't believe that Natal will be able to process subtle hand guestures, and so won't really offer anything the PSMC hasn't got, where as, if the hype is to be believed, the PS controller offers "submicron accuracy", has at least five buttons on each and can be used one in each hand.
i appreciate Natal is going for the unconventional approach, but i don't believe the industry is ready to make such a big departure from the norm, i don't believe either the hardware or software is advanced enough to meet our expectations. seriously, people are expecdting it to be like Minority Report. Does anyone believe that's realistic?
I get what you're saying FFA, but i'd rather be able to use voice commands for "Wait here", "Stop", "Move out" etc. and i think both the Natal and PSeye should be able to handle that, better still my headset, and i'd rather not have to take my hand off the controller for any reason, you get jumped by someone and you've had it.
TBH it's too close to call right now given we haven't got our hands on it, but i gotta say Sony FTW on this one.
I understand your concerns Tom, but you seem to be assumming Natal is just a slightly updated PSEye, when it's actually much more than that.
Firstly, fingers. 3DV's ZCam, the product from the company MS bought this year, was able to detect and respond to finger movements. For example;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9_VuqEymk
Of course, that's not a perfect example, especially given how close he is to the camera, but the principle is the same.
Secondly, Natal features 2 camera, a webcam and an InfraRed cam. It's the Infrared camera that is used to determine depth, and being InfraRed means it can even work in the dark. Hence with both cameras working together, Natal can cope will almost all lighting conditions (unlike the PSEye). Read the following link and especially watch the video of Natal (lights turned off at beginning);
http://gizmodo.com/5277954/testing-project-natal-we-touched-the-intangible
Unlike the Prototype which used a PC, Natal will feature a custom built image processor chip, hence the lag seen at E3 and mentioned in this report will be significantly reduced (and possibly unnoticeable in all but the most demanding games when there are 4 players).
As for Minority Report, I believe my earlier description of how Natal can be used for hardcore gaming is far more realistic and hence far more likely. Anyone expecting MR doesn't really understand Natal.
Finally, I really doubt gamers are going to want to keep shouting out voice commands when they're playing certain games, I really don't see that as being the preferred choice. I think hand gestures would be preferable over voice commands for the vast majority of gamers.
I understand your excitement over the PS wand, and I'm really looking forward to it too, but as I mentioned, the Wiimote has failed to prove that wands are a viable alternative to the standard controller for hardcore genres. So whilst the 1-1 accuracy is a welcome enhancement, greater accuracy doesn't solve the problem of trying to control hardcore genres with wands. Imo of course.
I look forward to seeing how both turn out next year.
Oh and (albeit a little early), have a Merry Christmas everyone. :)
"No disrespect, but you've given the perfect example of why I find the false assumptions people make online so annoying.
It was nowhere near 1m banned consoles...
MS have not stated how many were banned..."
Beautiful.
Yes I said MS have not stated exactly how many were banned, but that was based upon the statement from MS that it was NOT 1m banned;
"VB: There were stories that talked about how Microsoft knocked out a lot of modders from Xbox Live. I recall that early on there were maybe 1 or 2 percent of the people who were using modded machines. Why would there be such a large number now? One report said it was a million modders knocked out.
MW: It’s a cat and mouse game. These were people that were pirating software. We try to keep sanctity of life from a safety and anti-cheating perspective and we protect our partners. We didn’t release the number. I cannot explain to you why people would think it was a million people. It wasn’t a million people"
And in addition to the point I gave earlier regarding why it was not 1m, I've been reading for quite sometime estitmates of 1 to 2 percent of modded consoles on XBL. IF those figures were correct, then the larger estimate of 2 percent would represent about 400k gamers at most (out of 20m), worldwide!
Therefore I believe ALL the evidence (before, during and after the ban) points to nowhere near 1m users banned on XBL.
So that's not a false assumption on my part McGran, it's a FACT that it was not 1m banned (as confirmed) and all the evidence suggests it wasn't even close to 1m.
Of course, if you have REAL evidence to the contrary, then I'd be happy to read it. :)
And Merry Christmas.
Hi, I work at a repair shop for game consoles in the Bay Area and we fix 3-5 Xbox360's a day. Mostly for the RROD. We've yet to fix a PS3 for any of those problems.
Thank you,
Tim
...what has your (questionable) anecdotal observations got to do with this topic?
Hate to keep the whole 'failure rate' thing going in a Natal news piece, but this piece on Digital Foundry might interest some people:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-system-failure-article
Quick relevant quote from the engineer who works for the company who fixes consoles (but definitely read the whole thing if you can):
"In terms of the scale of the problem, and failure ratios versus the Xbox 360, it is very difficult to put a number on just how many PS3s are malfunctioning. In the case of a relatively small-scale operation like Colchester Computers, working on average, they'll get 20 dead consoles to fix each day - 12 of them will be Xbox 360s, eight of them will be PlayStation 3s. But that's an average. As Thickbroom says, "sometimes, in a hectic week, we can have entire palettes of consoles coming in."
...which is why Tim's observations are questionable, since that report suggests for every 3-5 360's they see a day, they are likely to also see 2-3 PS3s.
So, can we get back to Natal now? :-)
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Yup, back to Natal now. And not whether or not it will "suck."
The open question that we have collectively been failing (despite some valiant attempts) to answer is whether the lack of buttons will limit the ability of game designers to craft compelling titles. Let us speak to that fairly interesting notion rather than quoting highly questionable stats, trying to justify our expensive technology purchases and whining about grammatical errors.
So here goes: I think that it will be difficult to design traditional genre games sans-controller. Why? Because those genre have established themselves along side the development of those genres. Why, pray tell, are there triggers on the 360 controller? Why not just keep the A and B buttons on the original NES controller (it worked for Contra, after all)? My answer: because the games evolved in a reciprocal (or mutually-dependent) relationship with the controllers. Ergo, you will not be able to remove the controller and keep the same game.
However, (and it's a BIG however), we don't need more of the same games. Or rather we do not need a new product-line of the same games. Hardcore gamers get their fair share of titles already and can keep their controllers (or WASD+mouse) as long as they/we like. But (as Nintendo's experience with the Wii shows) there is a large market of potential gamers to whom the controller is a hindrance (if you didn't play Mario Bros. when you were 8, it is likely that you would be worse at Halo 3 when you were 28 - by virtue of muscle memory, pattern recognition proficiencies, etc.). In these gamers lie the big $$$. Let me remind us all that despite gaming being (on a worldwide basis) larger than Hollywood, it is still orders of magnitude smaller as an industry than TV, book publishing, magazines, etc. It is current TV/book/magazine/newspaper these $$ that Natal targets, not those now going to Uncharted 2, MW2 or WoW. So a lack of buttons will makes games aimed at that market.
Finally, to say that changing the rules of the game (the game being game design - confusing, I know), limits the ability of creators to imagine awesome games evidences a rather poor view of the creative juices at work. Wherever there are developers huddled together around stale pizza and a wacky concept that someone thinks 'just might work' there will be great games.
How's that for on topic...
If Natal uses software, its going to use up resources
Natal has it's own processor as far as I understood. So no it's not really gonna use up more resources.
P.s. I hope they'll add Natal to XNA. That would be so cool...
