As much as I agree with the above comment, it's a bit harsh singling out a portfolio.

Any chance Develop people could edit it?

And all the while I can bet that person has a good job in a related field and you do not, what kinda loser does that make you?

Maybe it was his ex-girlfriend, who dumped him halfway through uni. Certainly seemed mega bitter about the person in question.

Just a quick note to say that I have deleted the original comment; not because it's slagging off Abertay or Skillset - we're not ones for censoring opinion - but because posting a link to a showreel is, as BC points out, a bit harsh.

(I'd have edited the link out if we had the facility to edit comments rather than just delete outright, but that's a whole different story. Mr. Ex Student, feel free to repost your comment without the link if you want.)

Basically it was a post about how the final work of people who get a 1st on even Skillset courses can still be a bit rubbish. Academically, they ticked the boxes, completed the task and wrote the report, but skill-wise they just aren't up there.

Inversely, and not on the original comment, it's also very possible to be up there skill-wise but not be able to get on academically.

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33201/Developers-must-aid-universities-not-bitch-about-them for more academia is a bit rubbish fun.

Skillset assesses the Skills outcomes of the courses we accredit, not the wider academic perspective. We're about making better skilled talent for the industry,and we do this with industry evaluators from companies like Sony, Blitz, Ubisoft. We also look at evidence of alumni destinations- and a large proportion of students from these accredited courses go on to work in the industry. However, no course anywhere can claim all students will succeed.

well it's nice to know my undergrad and now my post graduate course are skillset approved. As someone miserable pointed out it doesn't mean all students are going to be great. I remember quite a few people who got 1st not being as inventive and talented as those who got 2/1 or even 2/2. reports are a bitch.

Still as from the other topic the argument goes on, but i would say the level of talent coming out of Abertay is high, shown in our high employment rates post university into the industry.

I’m not sure why there was such a downer on skillset, two of the 4 interviewers were programmers, more interested in how and what we program rather than how we all pushed through for a first.

Abertay isn't a good university because it does everything that Skillset says should be in a degree. Every reason for going there is outside of the sylabus.

Dare to be Digital originated there, incubations schemes, strong independant ties to local industry, and of course being the best they get the best students. Other universities also do similar things (Teesside has good fellowship and incubation schemes).

On the same note, the best graduates aren't the best because of what they did on the degree course. It's everything they did outside of it and after the degree.

If only we could get rid of the pesky degree course, academic rules, the massive fees and debt... and keep the rest.

Saying that you want to completely get rid of any academic teaching is ludicrous. You want to go into incubators and fellowships to learn a trade such as computer games, no offence to common trades but that would never work with computer games. Companies wouldn’t take people who have no (or very little) coding back ground, and wouldn’t take the time effort or money to train them.

Hell I’d love to get rid of fees and some of the academia rules are stupid. And this...

“On the same note, the best graduates aren't the best because of what they did on the degree course. It's everything they did outside of it and after the degree.”

Couldn’t agree more, as previously stated those who get first’s aren’t always the ones who do best in the industry, the ones who show the commitment to go beyond the academia, but without it, and without the safety structure behind it, alot of people wouldn’t be able to cope with the industry. You learn key kills which you then yourself have to take on. I'm not going to blindly defend the computer games course at Abertay, I think there is alot that should be changed. But by saying basically get rid of it is silly.

I guess the closest thing to your ideal (and the best compromise) is the new centre of excellence, which is set up in a manor allowing industry like conditions, with industry mentors, doing 3 development cycles over a 12 month period. A great idea but only do able as a post graduate. Any person coming from school level into a course with that idealism would fail, and I would say that even those who do degrees in just computer science would struggle given that most CS course don’t seem to focus on C (++/#) but do a wide range of languages not to any real high level.

The industry can no longer rely on computer science student converting across like it did 10 years ago, the technology has changed so much and is ever changing that people need a direct look at what makes games tick, not just a general computing idealism. Could it be better yes, but simply saying it doesn’t work get rid of it is...well silly.

I think people should still have the opportunity to learn how to make games. I'm just saying that maybe a restrictive degree course works is not the best way of teaching it. The solution could well involve taking classes at university and doing coursework ...but not with the rules that degree courses impose.

Somethings from degree courses are great. Lectures and having access to people who know what they are doing is a big plus (although I found gamedev.net more useful). But the way that they have to split off classes, make you do pointless reports, do classes that have nothing to do with game dev, a complete waste of a first year, and generally have a course structure so segregated that stops you making games either on your own or in a group ...it just doesn't work.

The level of skill that most graduates have is so minimal that anyone with an ounce of skill could catch up with some intensive learning.

Hell, the main thing a uni course does is point you in the right direction of the books you should be reading and put some fire up your backside to get some work done to a deadline. You're paying over a grand a year for that?

It's when people can demonstrate a reasonable level of skill, from whatever background, we should be focusing on educating them for industry. Put anyone with a decent portfolio on a years course that is completely dictated by industry rather than an academic board.

i guess there i tend to agree. Having done the undergraduate course at Abertay i too found the 1st year a complete waste (apart from the c/c++ classes) and even elements of 2nd and 3rd year too. I'm currently massively annoyed at the AI module in the masters, all theroy, and no practical help, and lecturers who don't understand the practical despite demanding coursework to that end.

I think the academic degree ideal can work it just needs tweaking. The point of doing reports and giving presentations isn't important (at least not in entry level work), but in some cases it to show that you've got the understanding of the work.

Anyone can look at a project, go on to google (or game dev) copy paste, a slight tweak and it's done, and have no idea how to do the work that was set. So a report to explain how it's done is useful, and i'd hope that any academic teacher could notice when somethings been ripped off and the person doesn't understand what they've done.

just out of interest which area of the industry would do this one year course. given that most industry members couldn't give two hoots about the learning process? Companies aren't going to pay to set up there own learning style enviorment and look for post school kids, and why do it for degree level area when they can get involved with universities and help streamline the courses that are already available.

I'd love industry people to come in and tell the course heads that we should be doing this, and not this. will it happen, will it hell.