Thoughts from our expert panel on Nintendo's console
Earlier this week Develop asked the industry for their views on the potential, and pitfalls, of Wii development.
A report on the industry’s verdict can be found here, but below you can read all responses in full.
(If you’re a developer who’d like to take part in future debates, ping an email to rob.crossley@intentmedia.co.uk.)
Order!
Develop Jury Service #2
David Amor, Creative Director, Relentless Software:
Is the Wii alive to anyone except Nintendo at the moment? A couple of years ago I took calls from EA asking us to consider developing for Wii.
My answer then is the same as it is now: the Wii consumer is well served by first party Nintendo software and they rarely step away from the franchises they’re familiar with. Being a third party publisher with new IP on Wii is a commercially dangerous position. It’s a great machine but I doubt I’ll ever make a game for it.”
Ed Daly, General Manager, Zoe Mode:
The Wii was all freshness and innovation but there’s a danger of that being lost in a glut of derivative games. Our experience is that fear that over-supply and fatigue from the mainstream Wii adopters is holding back some publishers and suppressing dev budgets – but there are plenty of great ideas as yet unexploited.
Anonymous – studio head at a leading international developer:
The Wii has, and will continue to, open up gaming to a much broader demographic than the other consoles have been able to. The accessibility provided by the Wiimote removes a barrier that scares many ‘non-traditional’ gamers from playing video games. However, the limited power of the console means it is difficult for it to compete with the very latest generation of games on PS3 and 360, at least in terms of the ‘wow factor’.
I think there is still a big potential market for Wii games which are based on accessible and original gameplay for a whole range of gamers from both the core gaming world and new entrants.
However the relative ease of making a Wii game in comparison to PS3 and 360 development, means it has become too easy to flood the market with under-developed product which have the potential to confuse and disappoint the public. A few more high quality, high profile Wii only games would add much to its market profile.
Gary Penn, Creative Director, Denki Ltd:
I have an ongoing love-hate relationship with Nintendo. I love aspects of their projected attitude, like their child-like innocence and their belief that the sheer power of the technology isn't as important as what you do with it, which has resulted in some incomparable software and hardware – and plenty of tribute acts.
I hate most of what's done with the Wii – including most of its 'operating' system. I can't be arsed with most of the games on it apart from some of Nintendo's, but I have infinitely more fun playing with the Wii and my kids than I do any other platform.
The Wii's not exactly a barrel of laughs to work on either, especially after Xbox. It's a real love-hate challenge to get the most out of the Wii Remote. You have to fake it big time to really make it work and no one else seems to fake it as well Nintendo.
I guess most of the industry's still trying to be too clever for its own good.
Martin Hollis, CEO, Zoonami:
To make a game that truly uses the potential of the Wii Remote requires several things.
Firstly you will need imagination. You must unlearn what you have learned and put away cynical thoughts such as "it is just a gimmick" or "buttons are better". This degree of open-mindedness is not easy to find.
Our industry is focused on incremental evolution of tried-and-tested mechanics, interactions and input devices. Our industry is focused inwards on itself, and on its most loyal followers.
Secondly you will need patience. To give an example today's button-based platform game relies on over twenty years of game development across the world. Your first Wii Remote game will not compete.
Thirdly you will need humility. You need humility because you will be making games for people who are unlike yourself. Therefore you will need to place their wishes above yours.
Owen Daly-Jones, Director, PlayableGames:
The strongest innovation from Nintendo and the Wii has been the controllers. They offer so much potential for game developers and gamers alike. However, I don't think the range and quality of game titles has delivered on this promise.
Far too many titles for the platform are repetitive copies of various party and sports games. More adult-themed titles and a greater variety in general is required. How many party or skiing games does one need in a collection at home?
Unfortunately the problem with adult titles and greater realism is that the hardware cannot support the graphics required. It is ironic that the MotionPlus improved controllers stress realism when the graphics in the game cannot depict the realist effects.
Chances are Xbox and PS3 will jump right on past with their motion sensing approaches, backed up by the graphics hardware and power to create realistic worlds.
Simon Gardner, CEO, Climax Studios:
Yes the Wii is a good platform to work on, we feel we now understand the hardware and the interface very well now, but the flip-side to that is that non-Nintendo publishers feel they haven’t done that well on it commercially. That’s the biggest issue.
From that perspective the Wii is a really difficult device to develop for, because as a hardcore games machine, Wii games are always going to be held up against whatever’s just come out on the Xbox 360 or PS3.
You know, I’m quite bored of reading things like ‘oh, the graphics are pretty good but not as good as a PS3 game’. Well, that’s obvious, but it’s still said all the time. So the second you try to make a gamer’s game for it you will get unflattering comparisons. That’s why it’s difficult.
I do think that there’s a problem with the installed base. Despite it being very large, I think the attachment rate is fairly low, and I think that colours publishers’ view on how much they can invest in the system.
I think that ROI’s on Wii games are probably low. I think publishers are very conservative on how much they can spend on it.
Of course, with Silent Hill Shattered Memories, we’ve made a gamer’s game, and we’ve put a lot of passion into the game to get it right. But we’ve now got to wait and see how successful it’s really going to be commercially. That’s kind of out of our hands, but it will be interesting to see if people will buy it as opposed to another first-person shooter.
We just don’t know if hardcore games can succeed on the Wii. I think it’s yet to be proven. I think a lot of people have bought Wii’s, but many aren’t buying software for it.
Actually developing for it is fine. I think we’ve done some really clever things with it, and I don’t think it’s much of a struggle to get the most out f it, actually.
The Wii is best suited for games that are more casual by nature, such as Boom Blox and Lego Star Wars, which both sold well on the Wii.
It is not the platform to sell games like Dead Space: Extraction, Madworld, etc because I'd imagine the majority of hardcore gamers who own a Wii also own a 360 or PS3, and why would you play hardcore games with Wii graphics when you can have PS3/360 graphics?
There are countless millions of traditionally non-gamer types who own Wiis that are just collecting dust.
This is because the right types of games for these types of gamers aren't being made. There is HUGE opportunity for those who can figure out how to reach this market. Make a game like The Sims or Pac-man that appeals to a wider demographic, and you just might outsell Mario on his own console.
Just to be clear, I'm talking about making an innovative, high quality, new experience, not something like the shovelware that is currently flooding the Wii market. Something completely innovative that showcases the Wii well and that reaches this wider market could realistically be made for half of what it costs to make a 360 or PS3 game, and could most likely have three times as many potential consumers due to the number of Wiis sold as well as the lack of real competition aside from Nintendo-produced games. Also, the game's graphics shouldn't look like they were made by a first year 3d animation student in one day, as even Nintendo-produced games do (Wii Sports Resort).
so
lets take a bunch of developers who've never made a game for the wii, including one who works for sony exclusively and ask them what they think
both relentless and denki are purveyors of the "casual shovelware" they're so loathe to play on the wii with relentless even going so far as to rip off professor layton with their latest titles
I think it's a fairly honest appraisal of the format.
Plus, the 'Develop Jury' asks the same set of people a question each week, doesn't it? That's what I took the blurb up top to mean.
They're all respected developers anyway, I value their opinion.
Hi Harry. Five of the studios cited above are Wii developers.
Simon Gardner's studio Climax, for example, has just finished developing Silent Hill: Shattered Memories.
Hope this helps.
What's interesting here is how everyone is mentioning how publishers are walking away from the Wii because its difficult to make games for.
BUT if no-one makes a leading hardcore title for the system then yes everyone will walk away!
It seems to be a vicious cycle, and you've got to blame Nintendo. It's the platform holders that take the risks, that invest in something that's unproven and say "look I'm making money"
Only Nintendo can entice the hardcore audience, which by the way is proving to be more luctative than ever for the company! How times change!
But if Nintendo does deliver, I think the rest will follow.
But didn't Nintendo already deliver?
They made several great games on the system like Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess for instance. The have games like Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, they even experimented (and more or less) failed in the action genre with Disaster Day of Crisis. Aside from the last two games, why won't third parties come up with the marvelous idea of bringing an experience akin to the first three games I mentioned?
You know why? Because third parties (at first) weren't interested in the Wii. And to this day, a lot of them still think it's uninteresting. That's one the main reasons.
There are several arguments in this discussion which I find “wonky”. Meaning, I disagree. Mr. Amor for instance thinks that the Wii public is being well served by Nintendo and won’t easily step away from their franchise. Isn’t that a situation which was partially created by third parties as well? I mean, I know for a fact that 90% of Nintendo’s releases are good. Why? Because they mostly release good games and the quality is constant. Nintendo is doing this since the release of Wii three years ago. In all honesty, except for a few exceptions, what did third parties do to prove their worth to Wii owners in general? Two years after the release third parties still wouldn’t/couldn’t bring good software to the console or they were actually stupefied by the success of the console. And because sales show that third party sales actually sell on Wii, my guess would be that a lot of consumers were/are disappointed in software offered to them by third parties.
The Anonymous contributer has a good point though: A few more high quality, high profile Wii only games would definitely help the console. The thing is, nobody seems up for the task (or willing) of doing such a game. One of the problems I have with several Wii games who want to be desirable for the “hardcore or more adult market” for instance is that they always have a perk. One of those games, Madworld is a great example. It’s a good game, the artstyle is cool, but in the end the game only will be compelling towards a very small public. I always laugh when developers or analysts choose MadWorld as an example. It’s like taking Godhand as a prime example of the PS2 not selling games tailored to the core. The most recent example would be Dead Space Extraction on Wii. I think Dead Space (the franchise as a whole) is great. EA really wants to push it, it’s high quality and very important: fun. But the problem is, with Extraction they made a tremendous error: making Extraction a railshooter they wanted to target the more core part of the userbase, but they didn’t want to alienate the more casual owner in the process. So, EA thought (According to Riccitielo) that Dead Space the brand is strong enough to make it a railshooter. Well, that’s just plain wrong.
I own Extraction and think it’s a marvellous game, but I like lightgun/rail shooters. Others ( a lot of them) don’t. You can easily point to House of the Dead performing well or the Resident Evil railshooter games, but those brands are stronger and more populair. My point is, Wii software always have perks. Sometimes it’s to extreme, every now and at other times Wii releases are made to target a certain group but it’s meaning gets lost during production or release.
Mr. Daley on the other hand thinks that the Wii’s graphics can’t depict realism. Mr. Daley, if that’s true, why can I play Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Dead Space Extraction and coming this February Silent Hill Shattered Memories on that console that can’t depict realism? Developers like Mr. Daley make one crucial mistake: they think the gaming industry is in need of more realism in games thus tech revolution. No Mr. Daley, I want entertainment on my gaming console. That’s why I game.
All in all, I just want good games on the console and I don’t care in what genre. Mr. Gardner has a game for me I want to play though. I can’t wait to get Silent Hill Shattered Memories and it truly sounds like a great game.
Oh before I forget:
I know graphics are important when playing a game, but it's only a part of it and it's not the sole reason when creating a game. Sometimes I get the feeling gamers/journalists/developers forget that little fact.
The only way to sell Nintendo-level numbers on a Nintendo platform is to actually COMPETE with Nintendo. Just because they made the console you're developing for doesn't mean that you can't tear them apart in your marketing campaign.
Heh - there's too many timid developers that largely let the money train pass on by because they made inferior nintendo game clones, low budgeted uninspired games, niche games with low marketability , games that were watered down or simplified from their popular predecessors and largely avoided using their strongest franchises in some misguided assumption that those games were not what the wii audience wanted. As if the wii audience is one homogonous entity anyway.
I've never seen so much bemoaning about a console with such a pitiful third party catalogue before. It's not like many developers are actually putting out a lot of money, time, effort and pride in their products.
The problem isn't the Wii itself, the problem is third party developers are for the most part uncreative hacks. I'm sorry to say that and I know it sounds mean, but 3 years of Wii when compared to PS3 and 360 releases shows that the majority of developers follow simple formulas to create cash cows.
Aside from graphics I haven't seen any real evolution in gameplay this generation outside of the Wii. I mean the Wii is a system with as large a user base as the PS3 and 360 put together and still third parties are terrified of the Wii.
It's a truly sad time for the video game industry when they'd rather collectively hide in safe and known little closet than step outside into the room that's twice as big.
And for Simon Gardner: I really hope Silent Hill sells well. I drove through a snowstorm to buy it and am not disappointed one bit. The Wii desperately needs more developers like you.
Thanks for the kind words. One of our guys found this today....they really start "enjoying" it at around 2.30 into the clip.
The video had me laughing because I had a similar experience and my wife about blew out my eardrums.
Also, please don't be discouraged if initial sales of SH:SM are low. Games on the Wii are not preordered or bought day 1 as much as they're "discovered." Tons of games on that system start out with 40k-50k in sales and go on to sell 1 million+. There's a site called vgchartz that tracks sales figures and the trend repeats itself on the Wii consistently.
It'll have incredible legs because it's one of the very few games on the system that deals with mature themes intelligently and has incredible quality, and it has one hell of a buzz already.
By the way, this was my first Silent Hill game, consider me a convert :D
